tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post8849596727540268444..comments2024-03-28T10:08:38.560-04:00Comments on The Adventures of Roberta X: "Libertarians," The Pure EvilRoberta Xhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09956807794520627885noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-40989254168074673612013-06-08T22:20:05.010-04:002013-06-08T22:20:05.010-04:00Linoge, there are big changes coming here along th...Linoge, there are big changes coming here along those very lines.Roberta X, remotelynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-83134175862833886072013-06-08T20:34:48.267-04:002013-06-08T20:34:48.267-04:00Oh, I can live with the pleasant lies we tell ours...Oh, I can live with the pleasant lies we tell ourselves - and each other - to maintain the thin veneer of society around us. <br /><br />I cannot stand abusively and repetitively being told I am "factually" wrong because another person has bought into their own self-delusions. <br /><br />So, I tend to remove myself from those kinds of folks :). Linogehttp://www.wallsofthecity.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-30376591265429329712013-06-08T09:58:23.808-04:002013-06-08T09:58:23.808-04:00Don't interfere with the mails. And don't ...Don't interfere with the mails. And don't sing that infernal song.<br /><br />Now if you'll excuse me, I must see to my Ray. :-)Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780425923108876647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-24642215073979555782013-06-08T08:33:01.750-04:002013-06-08T08:33:01.750-04:00Perlhaqr: not only is it amusing, my "Federat...Perlhaqr: not only is it amusing, my "Federation of Concerned Spacemen" in the Hidden Frontier stories <i>is</i> a despotic minarchy.Roberta Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09956807794520627885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-3907122921759189092013-06-07T23:56:38.629-04:002013-06-07T23:56:38.629-04:00See, there's a name for those who would rule o...<i>See, there's a name for those who would rule others, but it is not, in fact, "anarchist."</i><br /><br />Nah, nah, see, I'm just providing them a service they requested.<br /><br />Though realistically, my Iron Fisted Anarchist Tyranny would mostly consist of "No, you <b>can't</b> take his stuff. Stop poking him. Leave that fellow alone, I don't care if his belief in $DEITY bothers you. Stop touching him. Stop just barely <b>not</b> touching him. I swear, I'll pull this planet right over!"<br /><br />Sounds too much like trying to parent 7 billion people to me.<br /><br />But you have to admit, the idea of jackbooted storm troopers who show up and make people leave each other alone is kinda funny.perlhaqrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920117742664645165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-59950717009762823762013-06-07T22:12:44.034-04:002013-06-07T22:12:44.034-04:00Alas, Babylon!
Perlhaqr writes: "Personally,...Alas, Babylon!<br /><br />Perlhaqr writes: "Personally, I've decided that it's ethical to take non-anarchists at their own word. As an anarchist, I'm capable of governing myself. They themselves claim not to be. So, a tyranny of anarchist cadre, over those who wish to be ruled."<br /><br />See, there's a name for those who would rule others, but it is not, in fact, "anarchist." So this shortcut is not really workable; it ends just like <i>Animal Farm</i>.<br /><br />...Which is where we already are. The Rulers routinely exempt themselves from The Rules.<br /><br /> (Sleepy, I originally wrote "...ends just like <i>Animal House,</i>" which would be kewler.)Roberta Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09956807794520627885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-36288720229430176132013-06-07T20:16:57.538-04:002013-06-07T20:16:57.538-04:00From the "outside,"* it looks to me like...From the "outside,"* it looks to me like most of us -- yeah, me too -- tell ourselves a number of comforting lies, every day. It may be an essential coping skill.<br /><br /> It gets raspy when we're not all telling ourselves the *same* lies -- but that's livin' in the Big World. One can either come to terms with it or go mad from frustration. (Come to think of it, that's what irks the Islamists, too, isn't it?)<br /><br />__________________________<br />* 'Cos I am a dozen different kinds of weirdo and antisocial to boot.Roberta Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09956807794520627885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-62887776074637096172013-06-07T17:30:33.979-04:002013-06-07T17:30:33.979-04:00I stopped reading Og years ago, not because of his...I stopped reading Og years ago, not because of his positions, but rather because he lies to himself - so <em>very</em> convincingly - about them and their supposed merits. Glad to see some things never change. <br /><br /><em>No, the only real right you have is the right to be left alone...</em> <br /><br />This. Absolutely, unequivocally this. <br /><br />And, yes, I will admit to not being a full-on anarchist, but, by the same token, the only imposition on other people I seek is, "Do not detrimentally affect* other people against their will." If that really is such a horrible, evil imposition on you, something tells me you would not be a functioning, welcome member of <em>any</em> society, much less one that, horror of horrors, just wants to be left alone and for you to be left alone. <br /><br />(* - And, really, the notion that "harm" cannot be defined is so ludicrously facile that it is not even worthy of addressing, except with this observation.) Linogehttp://www.wallsofthecity.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-67827069346656980322013-06-07T11:52:17.455-04:002013-06-07T11:52:17.455-04:00Well, I read the link, read the comments, saw you ...Well, I read the link, read the comments, saw you wrestle the pig, and lo, you got got muddy. But it looked like only the pig was enjoying it.<br /><br />Personally, I've decided that it's ethical to take non-anarchists at their own word. As an anarchist, I'm capable of governing myself. They themselves claim not to be. So, a tyranny of anarchist cadre, over those who wish to be ruled. *shrug* Works for me.perlhaqrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01920117742664645165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-9807526680837564192013-06-07T11:15:09.268-04:002013-06-07T11:15:09.268-04:00@John B: As I've pointed out elsewhere (and s...@John B: As I've pointed out elsewhere (and started a minor debate through poor phraseology) it whoudl read <br />Libertarians<br />We want to take over<br />And leave you alone.<br />And, we expect you to reciprocate!<br /><br />That last is a killer for all too many who would like to be left alone -- they will not, cannot, leave others alone. Dranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08082177597135236652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-91378949181141582242013-06-07T11:12:44.681-04:002013-06-07T11:12:44.681-04:00I think of libertarianism as an acknowledgment tha...I think of libertarianism as an acknowledgment that things like traffic lights are mutually beneficial to all. <br />(No doubt someone will post a post ridiculing this metaphor.) <br />The problem arises when the traffic light gets a red light camera hooked up to it, and then the "green" period keeps getting shortened, to raise the income from fines to pay for the red light camera. And when the camera is paid for, well, we need to pay for other stuff, too...<br />Of course, the REAL problem is all the people who want to jump right to raising funs to pay for stuff, bypassing "Gee, this intersection is dangerous, we need to regulate the traffic flow there." <br />(Again, "metaphor" people. A band of Neanderthals was probably led by whoever the natural leader was. Sometimes they would have accidentally pushed him in front of a mastodon if he got to big for himself, and them. When Cro-Magnon started settling down to grow grain to make beer, the impulse to make rules to control others started, but, obviously red light cameras were not an option. As farby re-enactors say, though, "If they'd've had 'em, they'd've used 'em.")<br /><br />@sepulveda'srevenge: Shorter Leonard Cohen. "Of course the game is rigged, but you can't win if you don't play." RAH. Dranghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08082177597135236652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-68816055596596471372013-06-07T11:09:44.675-04:002013-06-07T11:09:44.675-04:00a Facebook post.
Libertarians.
We want to take ove...a Facebook post.<br />Libertarians.<br />We want to take over the Government.<br />Then Leave You Alone.<br /><br />by that yardstick, I'm a libertarian.John Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04875185117306503147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-7665152838632717982013-06-07T10:56:18.924-04:002013-06-07T10:56:18.924-04:00You're tuned to Radio Free Reno and we'res...You're tuned to Radio Free Reno and we're<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTc3hIEPTyo" rel="nofollow">sending this one out to savagely cynical Roberta</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-22866004744240250282013-06-07T09:43:02.260-04:002013-06-07T09:43:02.260-04:00Some people become stuck in their worldview and lo...Some people become stuck in their worldview and lose the ability to see the other side as everyday people. So, you get Christians etc. who believe in some vast homo conspiracy to undermine Baby Jesus when most gay people want just what everyone else wants. Which is to be left alone.<br /><br />Religious people tend to be a lot more touchy about this than others in my observation.<br /><br />Keeping in mind that I am well aware of the fact that I may be a kettle calling the pot black.<br /><br />sStuart the Vikingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-15003029180979072492013-06-07T09:38:47.907-04:002013-06-07T09:38:47.907-04:00Og is Og. In an uncertain world, he's a rock....Og is Og. In an uncertain world, he's a rock.<br /><br /> ...And lookie here, profoundly conservative persons and institutions are an essential part of a healthy society; but they are not the *only* part.Roberta Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09956807794520627885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-70528593401196559402013-06-07T09:29:16.585-04:002013-06-07T09:29:16.585-04:00You're a better person than me if you can keep...You're a better person than me if you can keep a friendship through that.<br /><br />Thanks for writing. Your post is much better than the followup comment I ended up tossing after Og ripped my head off for trying the first time. Like Tam said, I just needed to walk away. Being berated on the internet wasn't doing me any good and Og ain't changing.aczarnowskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-20838500837624046952013-06-07T08:28:09.956-04:002013-06-07T08:28:09.956-04:00RobertaX - This isn't rocket science. It'...<b>RobertaX</b> - <i>This isn't rocket science. It's way harder: it's learning to </i>stop meddling. <i>Few manage; they're no better at it than they have to be, same as they are about anything else. You want to live in a better world? Start with yourself.</i><br /><br />HEAR HER! HEAR HER!<br /><br />My view of libertarianism:<br /><br />"Unless you're hurting somebody (to borrow from Bastiat, plundering them), it's none of my business what you do. I may not approve. I may think it's downright stupid. But it's not my place to stop you."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-78481573236191661952013-06-07T07:32:10.538-04:002013-06-07T07:32:10.538-04:00Og: Pull the other one, it's got bells on, and...Og: Pull the other one, it's got bells on, and do so with a whole lot less of the attack masquerading as more-in-sorrow-than anger. Claiming "thought-experiment" is a cop-out, as you well know (hint: most people label 'em as such). And would you please point to "BS" I have "post[ed] about you?" Your theory that gay marriage is a plot to destroy any religion that disapproves of homosexuality is one you have often brought up. It may in fact be BS, but I didn't make it up.<br /><br />I have learned many things that "disagree with my worldview," except that I don't actually have much of a worldview. (Rand would have hated me: I do not have a philosophy in the way she did and you do). The "philosophy" most people espouse has very little to do with how they behave.<br /><br />On the topic of religion, I find most people (possibly all) are crazy. They believe -- or have faith -- in things that never happened, cannot be shown to exist, or are functionally irrelevant. It is just about certain that I am no less crazy on the topic than everyone else -- but if I want them to respect *my* hard-won crazy, I have to respect theirs. I don't waste time debating talking donkeys, zombie tales or magical fish dinners; they are matters of faith or belief, not of demonstrable fact, and it's rude to the people who hold such stories dear.<br /><br />There's a limit, though. People who are gonna claim Jews are poisoning the wells and causing the Black Death need concrete proof and so do people making wild claims about gay marriage being a plot to destroy Christianity. You have none; and to your credit, you, yourself don't want an Inquisition to get proof.<br /><br />(What I expect from you in reply to this is more paternalistic hectoring. Please prove me wrong. C'mon, demonstrate that "all the preconceived notions you have of who I am are utterly, completely wrong.")<br /><br />Onlookers: this whole discussion between us, at Og's place and mine, is a remarkable demonstration of how The Internet Is Not Real Life. In real life, we get along famously. As people who shoot trouble in complex technology, Og and I have way more in common than otherwise and we have great fun at BlogMeets. Online, we tend to do the cats-and-dogs thing instead, with a lot of looking-askance thrown in for good measure. So it goes. Roberta Xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09956807794520627885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-44022497254961408552013-06-07T06:53:37.572-04:002013-06-07T06:53:37.572-04:00Missed the point of the post. Took offense at a th...Missed the point of the post. Took offense at a thought experiment. Post lots of BS about me that is so far from the actual truth as to be ludicrous. <br /><br />How you must fear learning anything that disagrees with your worldview. Does it not bother you in the least that all the preconceived notions you have of who I am are utterly, completely wrong? All. <br /><br />JD: I DO have facts about religion and other people's motives. You care to come to my place and try your hand at debating me? <br /><br />I thought not. <br /><br />Ms X: I do really wish you might take the time sometime to actually get to know me, instead of settling for the caricature of me that resides in your head. That guy is a dick. I am probably a dick too, but I would rather be known as the dick I really am than one constructed of lies you seem so loathe to part with.oghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07551049745184408924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-22714468539139241982013-06-07T00:48:17.926-04:002013-06-07T00:48:17.926-04:00My version of libertarianism (which doesn't al...My version of libertarianism (which doesn't always agree with anyone else's) boils down very simply to "don't start none, won't be none."<br /><br />Granted, my definition of "starting" includes active harm against another person, with my personal reaction (the only thing in the whole entire world that I actually have control over) varying as to the degree and type of harm.<br /><br />But it is remarkably amazing how many "social issues" can be solved by the simple expedient of admitting that it's none of my damn business.FarmGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07109427921448753169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5837660608809488753.post-20271975387379602692013-06-07T00:09:06.388-04:002013-06-07T00:09:06.388-04:00Watch out for Og, he has FACTS!, about religion an...Watch out for Og, he has FACTS!, about religion and everyone else's motives. He cannot be defeated by mere mortals.JD(not the one with the picture)https://www.blogger.com/profile/08404477489642340522noreply@blogger.com