Comment thread to this post may be the last one you people get for awhile. Make good use of it -- I'm looking for reasons to bring down the ban-hammer.
Get this through your heads, people: I am NOT socially conservative. We don't stock that at this free ice cream store; if you want to get some of that, it is available for free elsewhere, all over the 'Net. I'm in favor of gay marriage and group marriage and any other legal contract consenting adults want to set up, and I'm in favor of businesses open to the general public being required to do business with all of the law abiding public. If they don't care for that, they can become private clubs -- the very same dodge used the last time segregation was made illegal and just exactly the same kind of signal of skeeziness. (What? That's a law an anarchist like me likes? Not so much "like;" but I'm stuck in a world where most of the rest of you want laws and since that's what I've got, I favor ones that reduce the extent to which people act like jerks.)
I'm through arguing with Nazis, half-assed imitation Nazis in nice suits and their enablers in my own comment section. From here on, I'll just delete their crap -- blogs are free, go get your own. Racists are not welcome here.
The far Right can go get stuffed just like the far Left. Both are really the same kind of yammerheads with slightly different trim packages.
I apologize for offending your sense of things.
ReplyDeleteI too agree that anyone should be able to marry anyone. Really, I do. I gave one of my employees the day of (and worked for her)off when Indiana began marrying same sex couples so that she could be at the head of the line.. She is married now
I also believe that anyone in a business should be able to refuse to serve anyone they choose. Privately owned businesses, as opposed to government services. Religious grounds, color choices, gender choices, whatever. 'I don't like you, go somewhere else". Just like YOU have the choice where to spend your money, "You are a bigot,m so I'll spend my money over here instead".
I just wanted to make those two points clear, as I really don't want you to misunderstand where I come from. If that makes me a half assed "Nazi" in you eyes, then I am sorry you see me that way.
"I also believe that anyone in a business should be able to refuse to serve anyone they choose."
ReplyDeleteYou can believe that all day long but the law says otherwise and has said so probably your entire life.
You don't seem to understand that.
As for some of your best friends being negr- er, homosexuals, I couldn't care less. In your private life, you can love 'em, loathe 'em or ignore 'em. Whatever. It's that "Ew, ick, all or some of the services my business offers are not available to Je-, er, Cath-, I mean queers," in the course of operating a place of public accommodation that I find ethically and morally problematic. Even more so since most persons holding such prejudices are too mealy-mouthed to actually put up a sign warning "HOMOS BEGONE!" Nope, they want to be treated as if they weren't seething pits of prejudice, and yet still avoid the taint of "those people."
It makes me want to puke.
Also, gee thanks for bringing this discussion over here. Take the hint or be banned, your choice.
I am with you on the business open to the public should do business with the public and risk losing business license for banning whole groups of people for religious or ethnic crap.
ReplyDeleteI do think any business should be able to refuse service to any individual for business related reasons. For example, Fred doesn't pay his bills and stiffed us on a previous transaction, we won't serve Fred here. Or Joe won't leave his dog in his car and it fouled my office, Joe is no longer welcome here.
Fred and Joe are real people who have different real names. If they come back we will ask them to leave and call the police to have them removed if they don't go.
We end up left with a fuzzy line to draw, "those "other" are scaring the regular folks at the diner" is not that far removed and can be a difficult thing to distinguish to a momentary outside observer and leaves things open to abuse from both bigots being bigots and race/LGBT/religion -baiters or others looking to cause trouble.
A common tactic of the far left is to name-call when they run out of bullet points on their daily talking-points memo. I try to avoid sites that do that, so I will be self-banning and will unsbuscribe.
ReplyDelete...Since I'm a far-leftie who spouts "talking points?"
ReplyDeleteYeah, you need to leave. You're deluded.
Ben C: You're conflating a group or class with individuals.
ReplyDelete"I won't eat bananas" is not the same thing as "I won't eat that specific funky, moldy banana."
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNo. You are a liar.
ReplyDeleteYou've lied quite publicly before, and you've admitted it in the past. Largely, people seemed to forgive you quite readily and haven't held it against you.
You're not a leftist. You're more like an ignorant child. You want things to go your way all the time, and you throw a tantrum when they don't.
We know you aren't socially conservative, which is fine. A lot of folks believe that marriage rights should be free for all. I believe that, too. I also believe that commerce is always voluntary. If government is used to force either party to serve another, it is a form of slavery. I can find no logical argument to the contrary.
Free society isn't pretty. It allows people to speak, believe, and associate freely. This means that everyone is free to be an asshole as long as they don't violate the rights of others, which prohibits imposition of obligations upon them.
So, ban or close comments if you wish. It's your right to do so. Feel free to associate or dissociate with whoever you choose. You're choice to discriminate against others un this forum proves my point, as does my decision to avoid your blog in the future.
ok.
ReplyDeleteAnon: I'm a *liar?* Really?
ReplyDeleteAnent commerce, you are free to *belive* anything you like, but the *law* treats places of public accommodation -- generally, businesses open to the public -- differently from private clubs, homes, churches, etc. That would be the real world, the one we live in, and not Libertopia. And as I have pointed out before, if you don't like it, you can work to change it -- shoulder to shoulder with Klansmen and worse. I will not. We live in a society with laws; since so many of my fellow-humans insist on this, I'm stuck with it, and in that case, I'll support laws that, in my judgement, leave them less wiggle room to be jerks. Roll back anti-discrimination laws and you're just giving them license to indulge in their basest behavior -- "Irish need not apply" and so on and so forth.
You can do that on your own time. When you flip that sign on the front door of your business around to OPEN, the law says you're not on your own time any more.
Oh, wait, don't tell me -- Anon, you're still pissed that after losing 14 years of my life to an unhappy almost-marriage, I shaved a decade off my age on the Internet for several years? Get over it, Bub. It neither picked your pocket or broke your leg; it didn't even turn away your business.
ReplyDeleteSo, not too long ago, my wife went to a Christian bookstore to purchase a statue of St. Joseph. The operator of the store asked why she wanted it. She replied that her intent was to bury it upside down near our houses foundation. Some believe that this helps to sell a house. Silly, perhaps, but some folks believe it. The operator refused sale, stating that such an activity was offensive to his beliefs. My wife left without incident. Should the operator have been required to sell the statue. Should he be required to sell Bibles for a book burning? Or other religious goods that might be used inappropriately?
ReplyDeleteOf course not.
I'm sorry you feel that way - but I completely understand.
ReplyDeleteAnd hey, it's your blog, yours to do with as you wish.
MAROONS ruin it for everyone.
BUT, we still would like see your humor, cats and techie stuff.
(Even if I don't understand much of it!)
Live Long and Prosper! Or perspire :-)
Hope to see you soon.
gfa
Thanks for the free entertainment, both what you write and the seemingly life-and-death squealing emitted by certain of the commenters.
ReplyDeleteSomebody somewhere on the Internet is wrong, even as we speak. Oh dear.
Here's hoping you have some time to write more on "I Work On A Starship"
ReplyDelete+1. Actually, +1 on your next post. Like the other non-furry inhabitant of Castle Roseholme, you need to spend more time on your other blog. And come back to where the bugs gently glow. The internets is there for your amusement, not the other way 'round.
ReplyDelete"The far Right can go get stuffed just like the far Left. Both are really the same kind of yammerheads with slightly different trim packages."
ReplyDeleteThat says it all. I am so going to steal that line.
Well, Roberta, it IS your blog and your choice and I agree with you re: you views on what business can and cannot do.
ReplyDeleteIf you think you've got to go away for a while, so be it. I'll still check by your and Tam's blog to see if you have anything to say.
And Anonymous @ 07:20, you are a coward AND a bigot. If you're going to call someone a liar, have the courage to put your name out here for the rest of us to see. Go step off a cliff.
Miz Roberta,
ReplyDeleteKnow that you and Tam are special to a whole lot of us. I wish you nothing but the best. Take care of each other, and know that we are here if y'all need anything.
Godspeed,
Drifter
Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou have to hide, when you call Roberta a liar? Post yer name and email.
Roberta and I may disagree, so be it. She is an honorable and very nice lady. Treat her as one. You comment is boorish and angers me.
She does not lie. Be nice. You owe her an apology.
B, he does have me dead to right. I have lied about my age and I did so for quite some time -- several years.
ReplyDeleteI wanted those lost years back. It turned out I couldn't. Oh well, plenty other things to do and not really all that much time in which to do them.
We'll miss you. Thanks for all the free ice cream.
ReplyDeleteSO you lied about your age. SO what?
ReplyDeleteTHat does not make you a liar in my viewpoint. You've always been truthful to me.
I've mostly given up arguing politics, and political philosophy with people. Most, myself included, have made up their minds. There are far more productive things to spend brain cycles on.
ReplyDeleteI've enjoyed reading you over the years, and I hope you find motivation to post on other topics -- as you say, for yourself, but I'll come by to read 'em.
BTW, got my 40M OCF up. Probably not well-oriented for reaching Indiana, but who knows, given proper conditions. Need to get working on the CW skills.
Best,
jed
Lied about your age?
ReplyDeleteBig whoop. I'd venture most of us here probably have too, to get into a movie or buy alcohol.
I've never given much thought to your age; been too agog at all the things you do better than me. so if that's the worst thing you've done...
Roberta, I can't change your decision either way but I hope you will continue with I Work On A Starship. You have created a unique universe and I'd like to read more about the Edgers and how the current cliffhanger with the improved Phantasmatrons is resolved.
ReplyDeleteLots of people write about starships, but I can't think of many that are miles in any dimension....
Rx, I enjoy all of your blogs. I'd love for you to keep comments open, but if it makes your blood boil, well, you have to do what's good for you.
ReplyDeleteJimR
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNow I'm getting angry.
ReplyDeleteIt's OK to disagree with a blogger. But Sealioning, name calling, and accusations of lying are beyond the pale.
I'm sorry this idiot has killed comments ... but idiots do that, especially when they discover they can sockpuppet to avoid blocking.
Now there are two blogs I can't comment on. Idiots.
It is my hope to spend a lot less time on The Internet.
ReplyDeleteYou have developed a following on the intarwebs. It may not be huge, butit's larger than Joe on his milk crate in front of Borders. ALL of your visitors respect you, many agree with you, some don't...at times. Some have impulse control issues. This is the brew that the internet has created. Retire if you want...or not.
ReplyDeleteGod bless Roberta. I agree with you re: the law. My comments about the government forcing churches to hire people they don't like didn't mean I agreed with that belief. Just that I understood why they believed it. If I offended, my apologies.
ReplyDeleteTake care of yourself. And the offer for dinner still holds for you and Tam if you come to Dayton to visit the USAF Museum.
*Churches* are not *businesses.* I've been over this and over this.
ReplyDeleteTake care, and Blessed St. Leibowitz, keep 'em dreaming up there.
ReplyDeleteSorry to see you go. Be safe.
ReplyDeleteFred G
Can't say I blame ya. A lot of people feel empowered by their perceived anonymity of a screen name.
ReplyDeleteI will still follow the blog. Never commented much as it is (not really into "I agree" or "haha" posts).
Spending less time on the internet is a goal most of should probably aspire to.
Hopefully you keep going on I Work On Starship. I also enjoy your blog posts on older equipment that you run into. I'm not a radio or audiophile by any means, but it's still neat. If you ever get the chance, Virginia City has a radio museum with a healthy collection of equipment.
Your blog, do what you need to do. I do hope you keep it up.
- Josh
Thank you, Josh.
ReplyDeleteI encounter so many obnoxious people, I sometimes forget there are many more good people who don't say much.
Bobbie, we can't comment over there but YEAY!!!! for another entry over at IWOAS. Trap-door weasels give me the shivvers......
ReplyDeleteI will miss you; it has been interesting getting to know someone with so many different interests.
ReplyDeleteUh-oh, Roberta, it looks like you flunked your litmus test.
ReplyDeleteI am sure that the nearest community college offers remedial courses. :)
The comments have been the best part of this blog. Without them, what's to come for?
ReplyDeleteThen begone, Dr. D.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, I am done arguing with GOP shock troops. It's not gonna change anyone's mind and some of the notions put forward turn my stomach.
Chas: And so it goes. I grew up with images of dyed-in-the-wool segregationists still echoing 'round the media. I grew up in a de facto segregated town and I know exactly what it feels like to have people claim exclusionist policies are the Will of God and ought to be enshrined in secular law.
I came (and still come) here for witty writing, insightful commentary, and glimpses into worlds which I do not get much of a chance to see; all of that above the fold, so to speak. I'll miss the chance to engage in conversation with Roberta, but I'd rather lose the comments than lose the blog.
ReplyDeleteThere was going to be a rant here where I agreed with Roberta's comment, above, at length; but it didn't contribute anything new or interesting, and led me to use some intemperate and immature language (though not actually obscene or blasphemous). And I don't need that and Roberta doesn't need that.