Nearly a year and a half on, I still get comments telling me that the 6 January 2021 assault on the U. S. Capitol and interfering with the normal functioning of the Federal government was a "demonstration" or a "visit."
Sure it was -- in much the same sense that trying to burn a Federal courthouse or a mob destroying a city police station is a "demonstration:" they all demonstrate criminal activity.
You want a normal "demonstration?" People did that at the official rally earlier that day: speakers, flag-waving, sign-carrying, shouts and for all I know, happy songs. The organizers got permits and everything. You want a spontaneous demonstration? That same day, people, many of them from the rally, walked down to the grounds of the U. S. Capitol, waving flags, carrying signs, shouting, etc. They had no permit, which makes the police unhappy, but this is something that does happen from time to time in that spot. It's as American as apple pie. Some members of the crowd trashed an outdoor news camera position and put the journalists to flight, which is what we call a crime, just as it would have been if they'd done the same to a tourist from New Jersey. Still, this is the kind of thing that does from time to time happen at a "demonstration."
Overrunning barricades around a building, breaking in, smashing doors and windows and putting the Vice-President, House, Senate and staff to flight while they are in the process of counting electoral votes for the next President and Vice-President? That's not a demonstration. That's an insurrection. (Nor does it matter if, as is still being claimed by some on the Right, "the police let them in." It's not true, but even if it was, that's not a decision the police are empowered to make: the building was closed, period.)
Stop trying to sell me a crock of authoritarian shit and claiming it's Constitutional cheese. It's not, and no amount of fast talk and handwaving will change that.
And stop claiming nonsense about the 2020 election, either. I get that a sufficiently ignorant or stupid person might have doubts, but everything from the actual way voting machines work to the multiple recounts in multiple states to Joe Biden's profound lack of coattails to the narrow GOP Presidential losses in states with Republican administrators firmly in control of running the elections make it very clear to me that no skullduggery was afoot -- which puts a mob trying to change the outcome on the day of the final count of electors very much in the category of insurrection or attempted coup.
Mr. Trump's Republican party lost a lot of respect from me on 6 January 2021 and the party in general has only lost more by their behavior ever since, with a very few exceptions, men and women excoriated by their party.
With the Democrats, I have substantial disagreements about policies and politics, about specific laws and administrative actions, but we seem to be in general agreement about things like freedom of the press, freedom of religion and the normal operations of a functioning republic including free elections. With Republicans, many of their leading lights have put in a lot of work trying to undermine elections, questioning our form of government and trying to force Caesarism on our country. The party of Judge Roy Moore and Matt Gaetz has become preoccupied with a definition of "grooming" quite at odds with the actual meaning of the term while they wink at the actual sexual exploitation of underage people.
So, look, if you're still banging that tired old Trumpist drum, do so somewhere other than my Comments section. Freedom of speech protects you from government interference; it doesn't mean I have to publish any crazy thing you write.
This is the United States. You're welcome to your own opinions. You don't get your own set of facts.
BUILDING A 1:1 BALUN
4 years ago
4 comments:
I agree with you about 99% here.
But I do not agree that what happened at the Capitol Building was an insurrection, It was a riot, and the rioters should be prosecuted as appropriate.
The fact that it was Federal employees being threatened rather than, say, a business owner in Minneapolis or Seattle doesn't make it any worse.
They are no more important than the thousands of citizens threatened by groups of rioters that had the support of various leaders of the Democratic Party.
This is not to say that the January 6th Rioters shouldn't be prosecuted, Rather that those that rioted in the name of Anti Fascism or under the cover of BLM should be prosecuted with as much zeal as those who threatened "important people" rather than the peasants outside the beltway.
I also have problems with calling it an insurrection as apparently the prosecutors bringing charges (as far as I can find so far, if you have links to to the contrary I'm willing to concede this point) haven't actually charged anyone with insurrection (18 U.S. Code § 2383). If the powers that be aren't acting like it was an insurrection, why should I?
We may end up agreeing to disagree, but I am open to looking at other viewpoints.
We do disagree. You are engaging in deceptive both-sides-ism.
Ends count as much as means. There have been many big riots in the U.S. in recent years, many of them with property damage, including significant harm and attempted harm to government buildings (and, presumably, to anyone inside). However, only one, on 6 January 2021, attempted to interfere with the most fundamental operations of the Federal government. That's what makes it an insurrection or attempted coup -- even if no one is ever charged with the specific crime. It cannot be handwaved away.
(In light of some of the information that has come out since, it is clear that a similar effort, albeit without the broken windows and worse violence, was underway at very high levels. Proving coordination, say, the Eastman gibberish and the rioters is probably impossible, but you don't have to step in dog doodle to know that it stinks.)
Many of the participants in big riots turn out to have many different motives: people who are just there to be heard, people who are only there to break stuff, opportunistic thieves and some with seriously ulterior aims. (In Indianapolis, after a very rocky start, police successfully sorted out BLM protesters with articulable issues from nihilistic destroyers and smash-and-grab looters.) But only one (1) riot set out to overthrow a Presidential election. That is what makes it worse than other riots, not the scaring Congresscritters, and it is extremely disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Those are the facts.
Mr. Trump's GOP may manage to stage a barely-within-the-rules coup after the voting in the next Presidential election. If so, they will do serious damage to the tradition of rule by the people and take a big step toward authoritarianism.
I admit to having been ignorant and spouted nonsense plenty of times in my life. And this may be one of those times (although if I thought it was, I wouldn't have wrote what I did)
But I am sorry you felt insulted by my comments. That was not the intent.
What I wrote was what I honestly feel, with no intention of being "deceptive".
I don't disagree with your facts, but we do have a difference in how significant some of those facts are to the overall picture.
I will keep you perspective in mind and may, over time, come to your point of view. One of the reasons I post comments here is that I know we disagree, at least in degree, on several issues, but I have found your perspectives useful, even when you don't persuade me. It keeps me on my toes more than a lot of the "me to!" sites.
73
You may not intend to deceive. You nevertheless repeated the gist of deceptive commentary by others. Some of those folks are very smooth.
Take heart in that you're the only guy (so far) who manages to get through moderation, mainly because you aren't trying sell outright craziness by bluff and bluster.
The important and unusual thing that was under threat on 6 January 2021 as compared to other recent riots was the *process.* All of 'em threatened harm to people and generally accomplished some. It's the forcible intervention with the normal and essential functions of the Federal government that makes the riot of that day stand out from other violent incidents and cause me to label it an insurrection. The mob was out to interfere with the election in an entirely extra-legal manner.
Post a Comment