Tuesday, August 17, 2010

I Have Not Been Especially Political Recently

In part, because Real Life was happening and in part because a lot of what's made headlines has been tempests in teapots; still, now that the President of the Yew-Natted States has come down squarely and forthrightly on both sides of the so-called Ground Zero Mosque, I might as well speak up, too:

Meh.

Why should I give a darn what the religion of goat-herding and blowing yourself and others up is doing, two blocks away from where we should be -- but aren't -- rebuilding the World Trade Center even taller than before? Manhattan is already lousy with mosques. Some folks more or less on my side are upset 'cos Islam views mosques as "victory monuments." ...Not being a Muslim, I don't and in any case, the WTC attack was a "victory" like Pearl Harbor: it woke up a sleeping giant.

Some bloggers and commenters (and others, but do they count?) have suggested that the block needs a pork butcher, a gay bar, a strip club and/or a kosher deli and indeed, why not? But this is Manhattan; you can probably already get everything from smoky links to a nice half-done* within a block, or at least three. Plus, think what a handy place it'll be for picketing!

Freedom of religion means -- as Westboro Baptist has so often demonstrated -- putting up with all manner of nonviolent obnoxiousness and getting nonviolently offended in return. If they wanna build a mosque and play by American rules, so what? --And if they won't play by the rules, NYPD is always in need of live-fire practice; they're still battin' less than .500 and that's counting friendly fire. Heck, I'd even load mags for 'em.

The President says "tolerance;" I say "enough rope to hang themselves with." For the well-behaved, it comes to the same thing. For those who would abuse it, well, it's a short drop to a sudden stop, innit?
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* So, you can't buy a crunchy half-done kosher dill pickle online. Dammit. Internets broken.

19 comments:

Nathan said...

"[I]n any case, the WTC attack was a 'victory' like Pearl Harbor: it woke up a sleeping giant."

I'd agree in principle, except that I don't see where the Japanese have yet built a Shinto shrine on Ford Island.

HTRN said...

"So, you can't buy a crunchy half-done kosher dill pickle online. Dammit."

One of the great things about Manhattan is food - there's something like 3 or 4 stores that sell nothing but pickles(Pickle Guys, Guss's Pickles{moved to Brooklyn not long ago}, Hormans, Pickles Olives Etc).

And oh, you can buy pickles online. Guss's will ship you a 5 gallon pail of pickles for a 150 bucks.

John B said...

I see I haven't rewarded your snark with a marriage proposal recently.

Consider it offered, and I'll considered it politely declined.

Idn't it awful, I'm attracted to intelligent women, ones who are way too intelligent to want to deal with me on a daily basis.

Now if you'll excuse me, I found a gallon jar of almost half-dones.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, then we'll put a nice little shop selling American flags across from the Genbaku Dome.

Roberta X said...

Nathan: Yes, according to one source, the closest Shinto establishment to USS Arizona is nearly seven miles away. Then again, the Japanese may be just the least bit more clever than J. Random Mosquebuilder; even though State Shintoism isn't what got 'em into WW II, they cut the ties 'tween Shinto and State quite sharply.

I refuse to treat the murderous-assclown faction of Islam as anything more than an annoyance to be mocked to death -- and stopped with excessive force as needed. Considering them a serious threat is just what they want; it makes 'em look more important to the wavering and moderate.

Roberta X said...

John B: gallantly put!

Ian Argent said...

At one point corporations of Japanese origin owned a fair chunk of US real estate. I'm old enough to remember the doom-and-gloom predictions of Japanese economic superiority. That sort of stopped when their economy tanked.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Wonder where the Mosque is located in the Pentagon? Not joking. We had to designate a space aboard my first Sea Going Command aboard the old USNS Bowditch (T-AGS 21) as a floating Mosque for 2 Military Sealift Command employees who were Muslim, and this was in 1979. You know what, let them build the damn thing in Manhatten. That way, if they ever rebuild the WTC, and another batch of terrorists fly a plane into it, maybe another set of landing gear will come through the roof. As for excessive force: I'm tired of these Predator strikes using Hellfires. If you're going to bomb them, then Bomb Them! 2-3 Hiroshima Specials up in the hills might wake some of those goat-ropers up and teach them to get with the program.

Nathan said...

Bobbi: I don't necessarily have a problem with your post, I just questioned the logical extension of that particular metaphor :)

State Shinto was certainly involved in the decision to go to war; had the masses of the Japanese Imperial Army not been thoroughly indoctrinated in emperor divinity and the infallability of their cause, I suspect it might have been somewhat simpler to defeat them.

On the other hand I sincerely doubt that the Japanese high command were true believers, but isn't that generally true of such top-down organizations? Belief is for the little people, as long as it serves the greater Cause.

Roberta X said...

Nathan: Understood; but I wasn't so much after making a metaphor as to the opponent as I was pointing out the insanity of picking a fight with a country that buys not ink but H-bombs and infantry rifles -- and everything in between -- "by the barrel." Asymmetric warfare only succeeds if we (or, rather, Congress) have already made up our minds not to win

The parallels between State Shintoism and Islam are easily overdrawn; in re faith vs. patriotism, they are very nearly upside-down to one another

wolfwalker said...

Asymmetric warfare only succeeds if we (or, rather, Congress) have already made up our minds not to win

Which it has.

Roberta, the simple fact that a significant percentage of Americans support the Ground Zero mosque should tell you that the "sleeping giant" slapped blindly at its attacker with one arm, then rolled over and went back to sleep. The cowards who run this country are not willing to fight to win anymore, because most of them believe the other side is right and America deserves to lose.

As for the Cordoba Mosque itself: No matter what you see it as, the islamist vermin that are backing the Cordoba Mosque project see it as another step in their invasion of the US. It's worth stopping for that reason alone.

Anonymous said...

I guess I don't understand why building a kosher deli near the mosque would be offensive. Around here, lots of Muslims shop at the kosher delis since kosher meats are automatically considered halal (the converse isn't true, though).

Most kosher foods are considered "okay" by Islamic dietary laws, and besides, where else are you gonna get good corned beef?

'Cause they're owned by Jews? Maybe they just figure to eat now, kill later (Homer: "Can't kill family...eating.")

Roberta X said...

Wolfwalker wrote: "No matter what you see it as, the islamist vermin that are backing the Cordoba Mosque project see it as another step in their invasion of the US. It's worth stopping for that reason alone."

Sure, if I accept their view of things. I don't. I believe in the Bill of Rights, and in whacking down with extreme force those who subvert or thwart it.

I ain't fighting them on their terms. That's a fool's game.

Roberta X said...

Anon wrote: "I guess I don't understand why building a kosher deli near the mosque would be offensive. Around here, lots of Muslims shop at the kosher delis since kosher meats are automatically considered halal (the converse isn't true, though)."

I'll count that as a double win: if only the major-league Jew-hatin' kind of Islamical d00ds are bugged by a kosher deli, that's even better!

Prune the weeds, water the flowers. Damned noisy weeds in their patch.

D.W. Drang said...

So, why is it OK for a bunch of muslims of dubious dedication to peace love and understanding build a new mosque 2 blocks from Ground Zero, but not for a bunch of Greek Orthodox Christians to rebuild their church, which was the only house of worship destroyed in 9/11?

benEzra said...

This is such a manufactured controversy. The guy behind the drive to build the cultural center is a Sufi. Read that again. A Sufi. And not just any Sufi, but one who has roundly and publicly condemned Islamic radicals.

While it's certainly a spectrum, generally speaking, Sufism is to radical Islam what Unitarians are to Fred Phelps. That is to say, tolerant, laid-back, and generally rather pro-democracy and anti-authoritarian. Sufis don't go around blowing up stuff; to the contrary, they are sometimes themselves targeted by the radicals who see them as allies of the West.

Pssst, want to see what a Sufi looks like in real life?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz1F3Tsv-oY

Hint, the Sufi is the guy playing the electric guitar and singing about love...

And then when you throw in the fact that the "ground zero mosque" isn't at ground zero, but rather is next to the Amish Market two streets over, you begin to wonder why, exactly, the media is trying to stir the masses into protesting religious freedom and property rights so vociferously. Unless, perhaps, they see it as a marvelous way to distract attention from the real problems facing this country.

One would think that with the country slipping into a second Depression and the long-term solvency of our currency looking more and more questionable, the construction of a cultural center and place of worship on a side street in downtown Manhattan would rate a little lower on the list of things to protest...

Roberta X said...

You would think that, indeed. But for every Pearl Harbor, the Maine gets blowed up anew every decade, too.

Prune the weeds. Water the flowers; not en masse but as up close and personal as possible.

Roberta X said...

D.W.: Heck, I don't know. Seems sensible to me they should rebuild. Maybe they need a better lawyer?

wolfwalker said...

benEzra: A Sufist? What would a Sufist be doing:

a) provoking the host country with such a blatantly in-your-face move at all, and

b) soliciting funds for it from Wahabbist Saudi Arabia

you begin to wonder why, exactly, the media is trying to stir the masses into protesting religious freedom and property rights so vociferously.

The media isn't. The media wants the whole issue to go away, because it's reflecting badly on liberals in general and Barry Lackwit in particular. The opposition to letting those responsible for the 9/11 atrocities build a mosque two streets away and name it for the Islamic capital of Occupied Spain is all grassroots.